Saturday, March 29, 2008

An Atheist's Conversion. Give it a read.


Delirious said...

Ah yes, I am familiar with Livingsword. I actually didn't notice this was his blog you had had linked until after I started reading the story. This was a very interesting story to read, especially in light of the fact that one of my good friends is athiest. He and I often talk about (argue? lol) religion, and I see that there is a glimmer of hope that he will some day also convert. My only problem is that I can't recommend Livingsword to him to read because LS made it clear that he had "read the Book of Mormon and found it to be full of evil". I on the other hand, believe the Book of Mormon to be scripture just as the Bible, and so you see my dilemna. Interesting story, but he loses me when it comes to his view of my religion.

Looney said...

Someone would have a lot of trouble figuring out my religion based on my blog links!

The last LDS missionaries were quite keen on emphasizing the commonality between their beliefs and mine. There are contrasts too, but I always wrestle with what the core of Christianity is and isn't.

Luke 11:32 say, "The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here". I am no where close to a universalist, but it does seem here that Jesus says that a generation from Nineveh, which was extremely violent and depraved, would be saved due to their repentance. Mormons also teach repentance. There are many mainline Christian groups that don't teach repentance. Certainly there is more to the story than this, but we must look at the most basic of the basics first.

Livingsword said...

Hi Delirious;

It is true that I reject the official teachings of Mormonism, and official Mormon teaching rejects the teachings of the Bible.

However my comment was not a personal attack upon you, it was simply a true statement about my experience; and although the quote is accurate (and I am impressed that you still remember it, I hope it isn’t written on a post it note stuck to your monitor!) it should be said that the context invited personal comment on the subject, and as Mormons (LDS if you prefer I mean no slight here) often ask people to read the Book of Mormon to see if they have a reassuring burning in their heart about it I addressed that issue from my own personal experience, I simply told the truth, I am sorry it seems to have hurt your feelings but it is my personal life experience.

Although you and I differ in our spiritual beliefs I am a firm believer in freedom of “faith” and/or “religion” plus freedom of speech and invite all opinions on my blogs including yours (actually I had hoped for us to be able to have vigorous friendly debates like I do with Max).

I have Mormon friends (and visitors at my door who I have wonderful conversations with, they keep coming back so I can’t be all that bad) and Utah is one of my favorite places, please trust I have no “hate on” for Mormons. AND more so I have no ‘hate on” for you, I actually quite enjoy reading what you write, that doesn’t mean I agree with it but it doesn’t have to does it?

I suppose that I also “lose” all the other people whose belief systems I reject in my article. Just as you lose all of us who are rejected by the official Mormon teachings. I can live with that, we don’t all have to agree, and I do enjoy the exchange of ideas.

If you would welcome me to comment on your blog I would be happy to do so, I will try to be “on my best behavior”. I will take this in the affirmative if you comment on my blog; you can hammer on everything I say if you wish, I am happy to receive your comments and will comment back in a more “subdued manner” if you prefer that.

If commenting on each others blogs is acceptable to you I am also willing to exchange links…..

By the way I am pleased you found my story interesting….I also find your writing interesting…

Livingsword said...

Hello Looney;

I wanted to say thanks for the link!

Delirious said...

LS...I think as long as you view me as "worse than a non-believer" and a Non-Christian, and as someone who doesnt' believe the Bible....we really cant' even discuss religion.

What I have always admired about Looney is that he has shown the utmost respect for my religion, even though he belongs to another. I appreciate Looney that you have never been demeaning, or critical of things I have talked about.

If you want to discuss religion with me Livingsword, then you have to concede that I am a believer of Jesus Christ, that I believe the Bible, and strive to follow it's teachings. If you can't do that, we really have nothing to discuss.

Livingsword said...

Hello Delirious;


What makes a person a Christian?

What do you say of the Scripture I provided in my article?

8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.
- - Ephesians 2:8-10

We are saved by grace (an undeserved unearnable free gift), faith (trust) in Jesus (Who He is, what He has done and will do), after receiving those gifts of grace and faith God will transform us so that we can do what He has planned for us, we cannot truly please God before receiving the gifts…

Salvation is not a reward for doing “good things”……it in fact is not a reward at all but a free gift…no rituals, or good deeds can save us, or contribute in any way what so ever to our salvation.

As what we believe, and Who we are trusting in for our salvation decides if either of us are Christians then for us to move forward either way depends on what we genuinely believe.

What are your thoughts on this?

Delirious said...

LS...I am interested in responding to this topic, but I don't want to hi-jack Looney's blog, so I am going to post on my own blog about this topic. However, I have a few hours of church to attend to first, so it might take me awhile to get the post done.